This is not the time for black women to be settling for less. Because of this recession/depression (depending on your views), it is more important to date people who are self-sufficient.
The economic challenges that are now being recognized by affluent White Americans should not and can not be a catalyst for roles "changing" within the dynamics of relationships between African American men and women. Quite frankly, long before this downwardly spiraling economy, African American women have been taking a leading role and cutting brothers slack which has reached far beyond the realms of the economy. Using the economy as just one added excuse to cut them more slack is laughable at best. I think that we ALL( African American men and women alike) now need to utilize the economic challenges that we continue to face as African Americans as opportunities for us to view the money we do have and make from a very different vantage point. We need to stop spending our hard earned money (from whatever source) on fancy new cars, clothes and accessories and simply start saving our money the good old fashioned way.( put it under our mattresses if need be). No broke AIN'T sexy but remember~ the pendulum swings BOTH ways on that one
There are a lot of aspects to this question. First broke isn't sexy on anyone! Second, In the last 30 years, more women have joined the work force and more men have taken on household tasks. This had nothing to do with a downward spiral in the economic structure. It has everything to do with forgetting Self. It is time for us to remember who we are and where we come from. We are descendants of not only slaves, but Kings and Queens. They worked this ground, but they later bought it from the slave owner, and that's the kind of blood we have running though our veins. That's the stock we are made of. Do you know who you are? What happened to the pride and the dignity and the love and respect that we had for one another? Where did it go? And how, How do we get it back? The time for making excuses is over. It is time for us to take our place, All African Americans, male and female. BROKE AIN'T SEXY. We don't need to cut anyone slack, we need to build each other up, it is time to want more for ourselves and each other.
To answer the question about the changing roles, it is apparent that roles have been changing since women have established themselves as such valuable commodities in the workforce. The men that "ain't sexy" are the men that are unable to accept the fact that women are just as effective (or more effective) employees and employers as men are. As for the cutting of slack, women should cut a good man some extra slack at this time, and should remember that his character and level of commitment are what count not his title or portfolio. What is intolerable and infinitely unsexy is a man that makes no effort or submits during trying times. A man should be tireless in his effort to improve himself or his situation.
I would agree that "Broke Ain't Sexy", however I am not the type of woman that would expect a man to spend his entire check to try to impress me with expensive dates that he can't afford. I am a strong independent woman, looking to be with a man who is just as strong and independent. We are all in this together!!
I too would agree that "Broke Ain't Sexy", nevertheless, these are the times that both men and women have to realign with one another.
As a single black female, it is important to me to be equally yoked with the men I date. I don't mind picking up the check or sharing the expense of dating.
I think now is the time where singles will be able to better determine who's a keeper and who's not.
Broke is never sexy...but even LESS sexy is broke, living at home and driving a benz. Women have been cutting men "slack" for years and since men in our communities are almost extinct, the roles have already changed. Too many of us (women) have already compromised and sacrificed – just for the sake of having a black man by our side.
It’s time that our men stand up and stop making excuses. My grandfather worked 2, sometimes 3 jobs to raise 13 kids while my grandmother stayed home. This current “economic crises”, which by the way was caused by our need for excess, is just one more excuse to place the burden elsewhere.
If you are a good brother, trying hard to support your family – you will get the slack that you need. But time is up for the brothers that are just looking for a hand-out, economic crises or no economic crises.
As a woman and President of the Chicago Urban League, I need and want to hear from more brothas on this issue. Don't be afraid! Boldness of thought is very sexy! I applaud Glenn for kicking off the discussion -- way to go! When I hear from more guys, I'll share what I think and what my husband had to say about it.
Many average black women need to get out of the mindset of equating her dignity with how hard she works to keep a man from having to contribute on his end. I've dated so many single mothers working two jobs who said "I don't need to take him to court for child support, I'm doing good all by myself. I'll work day and night before I take anything from him, because I don't need him!" Its sad that many women take pride in that.
I have nothing against a woman who works hard, but the "I don't need his money" mentality is what's keeping black people from attaining more wealth in our communities. That's not to say that there aren't any affluent black families --because there are many-- there's just too many black people in our communities who don't have a family mindset. Sure go out there and continue on your career path if that's what you love, but make sure that you're dating a man who's self-sufficient. The recession is not the time to be dating unemployed brothers, and truth be told, most of them aren't in the right frame of mind to be out there dating anyway. I know that when I lost my job a few years ago, the last thing on my mind was going out on a date, especially when things had gotten to the point where I had to decide between getting something to eat or putting gas in my car so that I could get to my new job where I wouldn't be receiving a check for 3 weeks. What man in his right mind wants to date under those circumstances?
And I'm not saying its about taking her to the finest restaurants or shelling out money you can't afford to spend. Its about being in good enough shape where if you and her come together that you're both an asset to each other instead of a liability.
Angela, with all due respect sweetie I have a good idea of where you're coming from and I agree that many habitually unemployed dudes will use the current economic climate to try to make women feel guilty about not giving them a chance due to their instability "come on ba-bay, you seen CNN, its hard to git uh job out hea. You ain't gonna judge me just because my money ain't long is ya?" However, I don't agree with working two and three jobs to survive if you don't have to. I also don't believe in women staying at home while the man kills himself working multiple jobs, however, I will admit that I'm very torn on this particular aspect of this topic when considering the cost of child care and the fact that the children really need a parent to monitor the young children until they're old enough to go to school.
Glenn, I completely agree. Most brothers are in no position to even THINK about dating right now. But it seems that dating and finding a "sugga momma" is easier than getting a job - just last week I had a man say to me "So, when you taking me to dinner?" HUH..seriously?! The roles have changed.
And not all women have the "I don't need his money" mindset. Some of us actually WANT fathers to be involved, even if they can not provide financial support. I am divorced with 2 small kids. I have had a child support order for over 5 years but it wasn't until 2 years ago that it was enforced. Why, because it took a lot of time and energy to have it enforced. Constant back and forth to court, taking days off from work - that is what women don't need. It's easier for us to just do what we gotta do and forget the money {singing} "still when I'm a mess, still put on a vest with an S on my chest - oh yes, I'm a superwoman". Not because I want to be, because I have to be!
And you said "working two and three jobs..if you don't have to". What if you have to? Our grandfathers and (some) fathers took their responsibility as head of household seriously. They did what they had to do in order to support their families. It wasn't a lavish lifestyle, they didn't have a big house or the latest cars/clothes. They didn't take expensive trips and eat at fancy restaurants, but they were a family unit. And when the grandchildren started to come along, my grandmother took care of us while our mothers worked or went to school. Different time, different priorities, different question of the week.
I don't think cutting anyone slack is an acceptable approach. Both men and women should have their standards and hold to them. In good economic times or bad, people make personal choices that affect their economic standing whether it's overspending, saving, or deciding to return to school. Of course, no one plans to get laid off and one would hope that if a relationship is set on solid ground, it can weather the storm. People should make adjustments to their spending habits according to what they can/cannot afford in good times and bad.
If you're with someone, man or woman, who knows your 'changed' circumstances but isn't able to or doesn't want to adjust to them, then they're probably not someone you want to be with. Your well-being and security should be a high-priority for someone you love or who is interested in you.
We are all going through a very transformative time not only as Black people, but as a nation and a planet. We are now faced with having to think and act differently. What might have worked before doesn't work anymore. The time has come for us all to be more creative and thoughtful in how we think and how we approach our lives. We are all in this together, as one lady commented and we need to support each other on all fronts. A more realistic and creative approach to dating would be a great solution to this challenge. A date does not have to always be equated with lavish expense. A simple walk on our Lakefront, a picnic in one of the many beautiful parks, a "hike" around our exciting downtown area or take a fun tour of the city together and learn something new about your own hometown. Perhaps participating in an activity that is less about ourselves, like volunteering free time as a couple to an organization in need could be a great way to get to know that special someone.
Gone are the days of the obligatory meal out to impress, let's be more conscious and impress each other with our own ability to be more creative and fun!
Broke ain't sexy but a man striving to work hard and make an honest living certainly is sexy. However, it's not about how much you spend on a date but the heart and soul that goes into creating a wonderful evening. I also think women need to be more receptive to that. So maybe he can't afford to buy tickets to the Jennifer Hudson concert coming to town, but how about buying her latest CD, and listening to it while having a picnic on the lakefront the evening of the show. That would get major points in my book!
"And you said "working two and three jobs..if you don't have to". What if you have to? Our grandfathers and (some) fathers took their responsibility as head of household seriously. They did what they had to do in order to support their families. It wasn't a lavish lifestyle, they didn't have a big house or the latest cars/clothes. They didn't take expensive trips and eat at fancy restaurants, but they were a family unit. And when the grandchildren started to come along, my grandmother took care of us while our mothers worked or went to school. Different time, different priorities, different question of the week."
Angela, this might have been the case, but a lot of those grandparents died broke working themselves to death. Yeah, I'd work two and three jobs if I had to; but let's figure out how to not be in a predicament where we have to slave at back breaking jobs for $10 an hour. We tend to forget that back in those days, the fathers worked that many jobs because they were getting paid 4 times less than their white counterparts for performing the same job function. I don't want to go back to those days. Just like the other ethnic groups have found ways to make money without slaving at multiple jobs we need to do the same. If its not consulting or freelance work it really does not make sense to work 2 and 3 jobs because most times you're going to get stuck in that same routine.
Sad to say, but many of our grandparents did not create wealth for us despite their admirable work ethic. They also did not raise us any better than the current generation because their children were committing violent crimes in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. While these men provided for their households, their children were often deprived of their fathers being able to spend quality time with them and do things such as play ball with them, take them to the museums and things of that nature.
So no they didn't live a lavish lifestyle, but how many of those children were exposed to paintings, sculptures, literature, private school education, gymnastics classes, and other forms of art or creative expression? Certainly not the majority of people growing up "back in the day." For all the instances where we're saying that the family unit was much better "back in the day" there are just as many instances where that wasn't the case.
And not to dog our ancestors because they did the best with what they had, but we have many more opportunities than they did, even in the midst of this recession. So how do we build on that and build a stronger foundation for our children to inherit? It certainly isn't cutting brothers more slack than they've already been cut. Seriously, how much more slack do black women need to cut in the inner city? I can understand a cheap date. There are many things that upwardly mobile women like/like to do that are inexpensive or free anyway; but seriously they already house the unproductive men, feed, clothe, and nurture them as it is. How much more slack can anyone cut beyond that? And truth be told many of those women prefer it that way because unless we're shacking up, I really don't have time to see you everyday, but those unproductive dudes do. The best thing black women can do for these men begging for some slack in to write down http://www.thechicagourbanleague.org/ and instruct them to click projectNEXT then Workforce Development.
This is a dumb question. Why aren't "brothers" being asked to elevate themselves instead of always asking women to lower their standards when women already face the most burdens and responsibilities? Women are considered a minority, therefore black women are subject to discrimination for both sex and race--brothers just get the race; Black women are more often left to raise children alone than their non-black counterparts without support of their partner.
Women should never "lower" themselves further just because "brothers" don't have together--for whatever reason. Period.
Glenn - I completely agree with "Seriously, how much more slack do black women need to cut in the inner city?" You are right on point, we have sacrificed enough for long enough. I guess the problem here is that we are talking about two different groups of individuals. You said "consulting or freelance work" is the only acceptable form of 2nd or 3rd job, but the men that seem to be asking for slack aren't the men that are in the position to consult or freelance.
As far as "those grandparents died broke working themselves to death" I disagree. Our generation is the first generation to do WORSE than our parents. We don't own property, we don't save and we have more credit card debt than we will ever know what to do with. Yes, they worked hard to provide for their families because they had no choice. But THEY PROVIDED FOR THEIR FAMILIES. How many men can say that now? You pointed out that "the fathers worked that many jobs because they were getting paid 4 times less than their white counterparts for performing the same job function" but that's a separate issue. In these economic times, if all you can get is a $10 an hour job and you have a family at home, you owe it to them to take it, and the next $10 an hour job, and the next one, and the next one. Should we want to do better, yes. Can we do better, definitely. But until then, you do what you have to do. Seems many of our men have elected to do nothing.
The bottom line is that not enough of our men are supporting their families. There are far more African American women in the workplace than men. Women are working hard to make a living in order to provide their children with the basic necessities. Never mind exposure to paintings, sculptures, literature, private school education, gymnastics classes, and other forms of art or creative expression.
And I hate to burst your bubble, but I was at a park just the other day and saw very few men with kids doing things such as playing ball. Even if they are not working, it's hard to get most of these men to "babysit" so that the mother can work! But there were a couple of men harassing me as I walked into Jewel yesterday. I will be sure and give them the website.
BTW Glenn, you confused me. You said "I really don't have time to see you everyday"...sounds like you are working too hard.
I'm not saying don't take the back breaking $10 an hour job if that's all the market is giving right now, but I'm saying that we don't have to settle for working three back breaking jobs at UPS, factories, etc. our entire lives.
Check out http://www.thechicagourbanleague.org there are resources that the Urban League offers that I didn't know about and that I may take advantage of in the future. I love the vision that Cheryle Jackson has implemented in her short time as President and CEO of the Chicago Urban League. The things that she's implemented have been nothing short of remarkable and I love Next TV, and for the first time I'm inspired to volunteer for the National Urban League Conference, but I digress. My point is, there are resources available to us that will afford us better lifestyles that weren't available to our parents and grandparent. We need to take advantage of every available resource we have because our parents and grandparents were able to get 2 and 3 jobs offering steady hours. Try finding that in today's job market. Its hard to get one job let alone two.
E-Quality, with all due respect you don't have to refer to the question as being dumb, because like all my teachers said, there's no such thing as a dumb question. While the answer to this question may seem simple to you and I, this is still an issue that needs to be discussed candidly so we can better understand why women do the things that they do and men do the things that they do. For instance, I never understood why women give up on trying to collect child support on their deadbeat baby's fathers until she explained to me how much of a hassle it is to get child support enforced whether it be taking days off or going to the courthouse on your off day to handle these kinds of issues. I still don't think that they should let these men get off scot free, but I can better empathize with single moms now that we're discussing this "stupid question."
Angela, sometimes I use the word "you" out of context. I was actually recalling a situation I encountered in the past. I had a young lady ask me a few months ago during our first date "when am I going to see you again?" I said "I really don't know because I work 5 days 40 hours a week not to mention that it takes me 2 hours to get there and two more hours to get back home so I'm literally gone from 7am - 7pm give or take a few minutes." Without one pause this woman says to me "well if you really wanted to see me then you could make time, that's no excuse." Here I am telling her that I'm out here trying to make a living and she can't compromise on this issue. She also works 5 days and 40 hours per week as well, so you'd think she would have understood. It sounds to me that she would prefer an unproductive dude who was available to spend every day with her. And this woman was 31 years old... I truly don't get it... lol! Needless to say, this was not the first time this has happened to me.
Roles are absolutely changing and its time that we all adjust. After viewing a number of alarming statistcis, it has become quite clear to me that societal roles with regards to women and money have modified society and male-female expectations. More than twice as many black women are graduting college than black men. Black women are now CEO's and leading the race as primary breadwinners in majority of homes.
As Yvonne mentioned previously, men have been getting slack for years.I can say that I have blessed to date many women that do not seek finances from me. The Miss Independent, so popular in media today, would "be damned" if she asked a man for anything. After 10 years of dating women that did for themselves I have heard from many successful women who would be content if a man brought what he could to a relationship and did not become a financial liability or burden on them. This is a relaxed standard if I have ever seen any.
Brothers, in these times we can opt to date women who are understanding that we are not rich. My Urban League Human Capital collegues and I were having this conversation and we found a consesus in that if you are spending en entire check on a woman then something is wrong with you. You are misleading yourself and that lady. With the male to female ratio being what it is, i suggest that brothers are apt to locate a woman that he can afford. What angers me is when brothers spend more on a date than they will for a child support payment or a bill, but thats another story.
Women please understand that if a guy uses the economy as a reason not to pay than he is probably just gaming and may not be worth your time. If he asks for a date than he must be prepared to pay. If he has no job than dating should not be a major priority. Broke aint sexy on a man or woman but its only a turnoff if YOU make it. Men of today can be measured more accurately by the way he takes care of his family and his finances not how much he spends at the Steakhouse.
As a man who works for and alongside great women,shout out Cheryl Jackson ;) I think its wonderful that women have elevated themselves professionally. This doesn't mean that a woman should always pay however. It does bring the 50/50 dating dynamic to the discussion. Impressing or gaining the attention of a lady is not all about finaces, Thank God lol. Manhood doesn't just begin on payday at work. A real lady will appreciate a man who shows more than his checkbook. Its not whats in your wallet its whats in your head ;) My momma always told me if she doesn't appreciate "who you are" than she isn't for you. Hope thats not why I'm still single lol.
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Bad economy or not the question should not be about cutting brothers "some slack" it should be about sisters examining their priorities and expectations in a partnership. A partners ability to be loving, respectful, considerate, hard working, selfless, dedicated, thoughtful, and all the other qualities that make for a strong loving relationship is NOT measured by the size of the individuals bank account. On the other hand, your acceptance of your partner's (or potential partner's) ability to bring these qualities to a relationship may very well be influenced by the individuals bank account particularly if you place a high priority on the level of financial contribution your partner brings to the table.
If a man affords you all the material things that your heart desires but he fails to love, respect, and cherish you in the manner that you deserve, should he be "cut some slack" and allowed to be a part of your life? Conversely, if a man affords you all the spiritual things that your heart desires but fails meet your financial standards of contribution should you close the door on the possibilities of that relationship? The answer will heavily depend on the individual woman and what she truly values in life.
There are no excuses now a days, there are many things to do free and are inexpensive in the city and outer surburban area of chicago, regardless if the man is struggling in this economy and the reason there are many independant black women making more money today, is because our black women have been put in a position that self support is the only way to go, most!of our black men are baby daddies and our black single women must support herself and child(ren)not because desire but out of survival.So now our black women are driving the nice cars and buying homes on their own not to be independent but out of survival. Remember when a man would support his family while the women would stay home and make sure her children were well taken care of,well those days are few and far between. So let's face the facts our black women must think about the future of theirselves and child(ren),which is why there are more black women in school than ever because most and I said most not all black men are still playing in the field. This blog is not about married women but single black women. So yes the woman should be understanding when it comes to financial means on a man part, let's face fact at least he is trying.
I have read a good number of these comments, and I must say that I agree with them all to a certain extent. I am a young African American male, recently laid off,and a full time student in the midst of opening an Ecommerce store. This is the first time I have been unemployed in 15 years. I honestly understand where woman come from on this issue. Over time more women started to realize that if they wanted better for themselves,then it was up to them to attain it,thus resulting in many of the men of our culture to draw back and say go ahead. I do not agree with this concept. Whether my wife agreed or not, I could not see my her facing the elements to make it to her place of employment, while I stay at home, toasty, making brownies.
I believe that many men, and women have strayed from the position that God appointed us to, and I do believe that it started with the men. It may sound juvenile, but as a new husband, I have learned that placing God first in our lives covers all of the issues that we could ever face in relationships, whether romantic or otherwise. Should a man be granted slack during this time of tribulation? I believe that a man, if he stays true to the definition of one, would be offended at even the hint of such a thought. I believe that a real man would not want to be defined as anything else than what he Really is.
This is not the time for black women to be settling for less. Because of this recession/depression (depending on your views), it is more important to date people who are self-sufficient.
ReplyDeleteThe economic challenges that are now being recognized by affluent White Americans should not and can not be a catalyst for roles "changing" within the dynamics of relationships between African American men and women. Quite frankly, long before this downwardly spiraling economy, African American women have been taking a leading role and cutting brothers slack which has reached far beyond the realms of the economy. Using the economy as just one added excuse to cut them more slack is laughable at best. I think that we ALL( African American men and women alike) now need to utilize the economic challenges that we continue to face as African Americans as opportunities for us to view the money we do have and make from a very different vantage point. We need to stop spending our hard earned money (from whatever source) on fancy new cars, clothes and accessories and simply start saving our money the good old fashioned way.( put it under our mattresses if need be). No broke AIN'T sexy but remember~ the pendulum swings BOTH ways on that one
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of aspects to this question. First broke isn't sexy on anyone! Second, In the last 30 years, more women have joined the work force and more men have taken on household tasks. This had nothing to do with a downward spiral in the economic structure. It has everything to do with forgetting Self. It is time for us to remember who we are and where we come from. We are descendants of not only slaves, but Kings and Queens. They worked this ground, but they later bought it from the slave owner, and that's the kind of blood we have running though our veins. That's the stock we are made of. Do you know who you are? What happened to the pride and the dignity and the love and respect that we had for one another? Where did it go? And how, How do we get it back? The time for making excuses is over. It is time for us to take our place, All African Americans, male and female. BROKE AIN'T SEXY. We don't need to cut anyone slack, we need to build each other up, it is time to want more for ourselves and each other.
ReplyDeleteTo answer the question about the changing roles, it is apparent that roles have been changing since women have established themselves as such valuable commodities in the workforce. The men that "ain't sexy" are the men that are unable to accept the fact that women are just as effective (or more effective) employees and employers as men are. As for the cutting of slack, women should cut a good man some extra slack at this time, and should remember that his character and level of commitment are what count not his title or portfolio. What is intolerable and infinitely unsexy is a man that makes no effort or submits during trying times. A man should be tireless in his effort to improve himself or his situation.
ReplyDeleteI would agree that "Broke Ain't Sexy", however I am not the type of woman that would expect a man to spend his entire check to try to impress me with expensive dates that he can't afford. I am a strong independent woman, looking to be with a man who is just as strong and independent. We are all in this together!!
ReplyDeleteI too would agree that "Broke Ain't Sexy", nevertheless, these are the times that both men and women have to realign with one another.
ReplyDeleteAs a single black female, it is important to me to be equally yoked with the men I date. I don't mind picking up the check or sharing the expense of dating.
I think now is the time where singles will be able to better determine who's a keeper and who's not.
Broke is never sexy...but even LESS sexy is broke, living at home and driving a benz. Women have been cutting men "slack" for years and since men in our communities are almost extinct, the roles have already changed. Too many of us (women) have already compromised and sacrificed – just for the sake of having a black man by our side.
ReplyDeleteIt’s time that our men stand up and stop making excuses. My grandfather worked 2, sometimes 3 jobs to raise 13 kids while my grandmother stayed home. This current “economic crises”, which by the way was caused by our need for excess, is just one more excuse to place the burden elsewhere.
If you are a good brother, trying hard to support your family – you will get the slack that you need. But time is up for the brothers that are just looking for a hand-out, economic crises or no economic crises.
As a woman and President of the Chicago Urban League, I need and want to hear from more brothas on this issue. Don't be afraid! Boldness of thought is very sexy! I applaud Glenn for kicking off the discussion -- way to go! When I hear from more guys, I'll share what I think and what my husband had to say about it.
ReplyDeleteMany average black women need to get out of the mindset of equating her dignity with how hard she works to keep a man from having to contribute on his end. I've dated so many single mothers working two jobs who said "I don't need to take him to court for child support, I'm doing good all by myself. I'll work day and night before I take anything from him, because I don't need him!" Its sad that many women take pride in that.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing against a woman who works hard, but the "I don't need his money" mentality is what's keeping black people from attaining more wealth in our communities. That's not to say that there aren't any affluent black families --because there are many-- there's just too many black people in our communities who don't have a family mindset. Sure go out there and continue on your career path if that's what you love, but make sure that you're dating a man who's self-sufficient. The recession is not the time to be dating unemployed brothers, and truth be told, most of them aren't in the right frame of mind to be out there dating anyway. I know that when I lost my job a few years ago, the last thing on my mind was going out on a date, especially when things had gotten to the point where I had to decide between getting something to eat or putting gas in my car so that I could get to my new job where I wouldn't be receiving a check for 3 weeks. What man in his right mind wants to date under those circumstances?
And I'm not saying its about taking her to the finest restaurants or shelling out money you can't afford to spend. Its about being in good enough shape where if you and her come together that you're both an asset to each other instead of a liability.
Angela, with all due respect sweetie I have a good idea of where you're coming from and I agree that many habitually unemployed dudes will use the current economic climate to try to make women feel guilty about not giving them a chance due to their instability "come on ba-bay, you seen CNN, its hard to git uh job out hea. You ain't gonna judge me just because my money ain't long is ya?" However, I don't agree with working two and three jobs to survive if you don't have to. I also don't believe in women staying at home while the man kills himself working multiple jobs, however, I will admit that I'm very torn on this particular aspect of this topic when considering the cost of child care and the fact that the children really need a parent to monitor the young children until they're old enough to go to school.
Glenn, I completely agree. Most brothers are in no position to even THINK about dating right now. But it seems that dating and finding a "sugga momma" is easier than getting a job - just last week I had a man say to me "So, when you taking me to dinner?" HUH..seriously?! The roles have changed.
ReplyDeleteAnd not all women have the "I don't need his money" mindset. Some of us actually WANT fathers to be involved, even if they can not provide financial support. I am divorced with 2 small kids. I have had a child support order for over 5 years but it wasn't until 2 years ago that it was enforced. Why, because it took a lot of time and energy to have it enforced. Constant back and forth to court, taking days off from work - that is what women don't need. It's easier for us to just do what we gotta do and forget the money {singing} "still when I'm a mess, still put on a vest with an S on my chest - oh yes, I'm a superwoman". Not because I want to be, because I have to be!
And you said "working two and three jobs..if you don't have to". What if you have to? Our grandfathers and (some) fathers took their responsibility as head of household seriously. They did what they had to do in order to support their families. It wasn't a lavish lifestyle, they didn't have a big house or the latest cars/clothes. They didn't take expensive trips and eat at fancy restaurants, but they were a family unit. And when the grandchildren started to come along, my grandmother took care of us while our mothers worked or went to school. Different time, different priorities, different question of the week.
I don't think cutting anyone slack is an acceptable approach. Both men and women should have their standards and hold to them. In good economic times or bad, people make personal choices that affect their economic standing whether it's overspending, saving, or deciding to return to school. Of course, no one plans to get laid off and one would hope that if a relationship is set on solid ground, it can weather the storm. People should make adjustments to their spending habits according to what they can/cannot afford in good times and bad.
ReplyDeleteIf you're with someone, man or woman, who knows your 'changed' circumstances but isn't able to or doesn't want to adjust to them, then they're probably not someone you want to be with. Your well-being and security should be a high-priority for someone you love or who is interested in you.
We are all going through a very transformative time not only as Black people, but as a nation and a planet. We are now faced with having to think and act differently. What might have worked before doesn't work anymore. The time has come for us all to be more creative and thoughtful in how we think and how we approach our lives. We are all in this together, as one lady commented and we need to support each other on all fronts.
ReplyDeleteA more realistic and creative approach to dating would be a great solution to this challenge. A date does not have to always be equated with lavish expense. A simple walk on our Lakefront, a picnic in one of the many beautiful parks, a "hike" around our exciting downtown area or take a fun tour of the city together and learn something new about your own hometown. Perhaps participating in an activity that is less about ourselves, like volunteering free time as a couple to an organization in need could be a great way to get to know that special someone.
Gone are the days of the obligatory meal out to impress, let's be more conscious and impress each other with our own ability to be more creative and fun!
Broke ain't sexy but a man striving to work hard and make an honest living certainly is sexy. However, it's not about how much you spend on a date but the heart and soul that goes into creating a wonderful evening. I also think women need to be more receptive to that. So maybe he can't afford to buy tickets to the Jennifer Hudson concert coming to town, but how about buying her latest CD, and listening to it while having a picnic on the lakefront the evening of the show. That would get major points in my book!
ReplyDelete"And you said "working two and three jobs..if you don't have to". What if you have to? Our grandfathers and (some) fathers took their responsibility as head of household seriously. They did what they had to do in order to support their families. It wasn't a lavish lifestyle, they didn't have a big house or the latest cars/clothes. They didn't take expensive trips and eat at fancy restaurants, but they were a family unit. And when the grandchildren started to come along, my grandmother took care of us while our mothers worked or went to school. Different time, different priorities, different question of the week."
ReplyDeleteAngela, this might have been the case, but a lot of those grandparents died broke working themselves to death. Yeah, I'd work two and three jobs if I had to; but let's figure out how to not be in a predicament where we have to slave at back breaking jobs for $10 an hour. We tend to forget that back in those days, the fathers worked that many jobs because they were getting paid 4 times less than their white counterparts for performing the same job function. I don't want to go back to those days. Just like the other ethnic groups have found ways to make money without slaving at multiple jobs we need to do the same. If its not consulting or freelance work it really does not make sense to work 2 and 3 jobs because most times you're going to get stuck in that same routine.
Sad to say, but many of our grandparents did not create wealth for us despite their admirable work ethic. They also did not raise us any better than the current generation because their children were committing violent crimes in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. While these men provided for their households, their children were often deprived of their fathers being able to spend quality time with them and do things such as play ball with them, take them to the museums and things of that nature.
So no they didn't live a lavish lifestyle, but how many of those children were exposed to paintings, sculptures, literature, private school education, gymnastics classes, and other forms of art or creative expression? Certainly not the majority of people growing up "back in the day." For all the instances where we're saying that the family unit was much better "back in the day" there are just as many instances where that wasn't the case.
And not to dog our ancestors because they did the best with what they had, but we have many more opportunities than they did, even in the midst of this recession. So how do we build on that and build a stronger foundation for our children to inherit? It certainly isn't cutting brothers more slack than they've already been cut. Seriously, how much more slack do black women need to cut in the inner city? I can understand a cheap date. There are many things that upwardly mobile women like/like to do that are inexpensive or free anyway; but seriously they already house the unproductive men, feed, clothe, and nurture them as it is. How much more slack can anyone cut beyond that? And truth be told many of those women prefer it that way because unless we're shacking up, I really don't have time to see you everyday, but those unproductive dudes do. The best thing black women can do for these men begging for some slack in to write down http://www.thechicagourbanleague.org/ and instruct them to click projectNEXT then Workforce Development.
This is a dumb question. Why aren't "brothers" being asked to elevate themselves instead of always asking women to lower their standards when women already face the most burdens and responsibilities? Women are considered a minority, therefore black women are subject to discrimination for both sex and race--brothers just get the race; Black women are more often left to raise children alone than their non-black counterparts without support of their partner.
ReplyDeleteWomen should never "lower" themselves further just because "brothers" don't have together--for whatever reason. Period.
Glenn - I completely agree with "Seriously, how much more slack do black women need to cut in the inner city?" You are right on point, we have sacrificed enough for long enough. I guess the problem here is that we are talking about two different groups of individuals. You said "consulting or freelance work" is the only acceptable form of 2nd or 3rd job, but the men that seem to be asking for slack aren't the men that are in the position to consult or freelance.
ReplyDeleteAs far as "those grandparents died broke working themselves to death" I disagree. Our generation is the first generation to do WORSE than our parents. We don't own property, we don't save and we have more credit card debt than we will ever know what to do with. Yes, they worked hard to provide for their families because they had no choice. But THEY PROVIDED FOR THEIR FAMILIES. How many men can say that now? You pointed out that "the fathers worked that many jobs because they were getting paid 4 times less than their white counterparts for performing the same job function" but that's a separate issue. In these economic times, if all you can get is a $10 an hour job and you have a family at home, you owe it to them to take it, and the next $10 an hour job, and the next one, and the next one. Should we want to do better, yes. Can we do better, definitely. But until then, you do what you have to do. Seems many of our men have elected to do nothing.
The bottom line is that not enough of our men are supporting their families. There are far more African American women in the workplace than men. Women are working hard to make a living in order to provide their children with the basic necessities. Never mind exposure to paintings, sculptures, literature, private school education, gymnastics classes, and other forms of art or creative expression.
And I hate to burst your bubble, but I was at a park just the other day and saw very few men with kids doing things such as playing ball. Even if they are not working, it's hard to get most of these men to "babysit" so that the mother can work! But there were a couple of men harassing me as I walked into Jewel yesterday. I will be sure and give them the website.
BTW Glenn, you confused me. You said "I really don't have time to see you everyday"...sounds like you are working too hard.
I'm not saying don't take the back breaking $10 an hour job if that's all the market is giving right now, but I'm saying that we don't have to settle for working three back breaking jobs at UPS, factories, etc. our entire lives.
ReplyDeleteCheck out http://www.thechicagourbanleague.org there are resources that the Urban League offers that I didn't know about and that I may take advantage of in the future. I love the vision that Cheryle Jackson has implemented in her short time as President and CEO of the Chicago Urban League. The things that she's implemented have been nothing short of remarkable and I love Next TV, and for the first time I'm inspired to volunteer for the National Urban League Conference, but I digress. My point is, there are resources available to us that will afford us better lifestyles that weren't available to our parents and grandparent. We need to take advantage of every available resource we have because our parents and grandparents were able to get 2 and 3 jobs offering steady hours. Try finding that in today's job market. Its hard to get one job let alone two.
E-Quality, with all due respect you don't have to refer to the question as being dumb, because like all my teachers said, there's no such thing as a dumb question. While the answer to this question may seem simple to you and I, this is still an issue that needs to be discussed candidly so we can better understand why women do the things that they do and men do the things that they do. For instance, I never understood why women give up on trying to collect child support on their deadbeat baby's fathers until she explained to me how much of a hassle it is to get child support enforced whether it be taking days off or going to the courthouse on your off day to handle these kinds of issues. I still don't think that they should let these men get off scot free, but I can better empathize with single moms now that we're discussing this "stupid question."
Angela, sometimes I use the word "you" out of context. I was actually recalling a situation I encountered in the past. I had a young lady ask me a few months ago during our first date "when am I going to see you again?" I said "I really don't know because I work 5 days 40 hours a week not to mention that it takes me 2 hours to get there and two more hours to get back home so I'm literally gone from 7am - 7pm give or take a few minutes." Without one pause this woman says to me "well if you really wanted to see me then you could make time, that's no excuse." Here I am telling her that I'm out here trying to make a living and she can't compromise on this issue. She also works 5 days and 40 hours per week as well, so you'd think she would have understood. It sounds to me that she would prefer an unproductive dude who was available to spend every day with her. And this woman was 31 years old... I truly don't get it... lol! Needless to say, this was not the first time this has happened to me.
Roles are absolutely changing and its time that we all adjust.
ReplyDeleteAfter viewing a number of alarming statistcis, it has become quite clear to me that societal roles with regards to women and money have modified society and male-female expectations. More than twice as many black women are graduting college than black men. Black women are now CEO's and leading the race as primary breadwinners in majority of homes.
As Yvonne mentioned previously, men have been getting slack for years.I can say that I have blessed to date many women that do not seek finances from me. The Miss Independent, so popular in media today, would "be damned" if she asked a man for anything. After 10 years of dating women that did for themselves I have heard from many successful women who would be content if a man brought what he could to a relationship and did not become a financial liability or burden on them. This is a relaxed standard if I have ever seen any.
Brothers, in these times we can opt to date women who are understanding that we are not rich. My Urban League Human Capital collegues and I were having this conversation and we found a consesus in that if you are spending en entire check on a woman then something is wrong with you. You are misleading yourself and that lady. With the male to female ratio being what it is, i suggest that brothers are apt to locate a woman that he can afford. What angers me is when brothers spend more on a date than they will for a child support payment or a bill, but thats another story.
Women please understand that if a guy uses the economy as a reason not to pay than he is probably just gaming and may not be worth your time. If he asks for a date than he must be prepared to pay. If he has no job than dating should not be a major priority. Broke aint sexy on a man or woman but its only a turnoff if YOU make it. Men of today can be measured more accurately by the way he takes care of his family and his finances not how much he spends at the Steakhouse.
As a man who works for and alongside great women,shout out Cheryl Jackson ;) I think its wonderful that women have elevated themselves professionally. This doesn't mean that a woman should always pay however. It does bring the 50/50 dating dynamic to the discussion. Impressing or gaining the attention of a lady is not all about finaces, Thank God lol. Manhood doesn't just begin on payday at work. A real lady will appreciate a man who shows more than his checkbook. Its not whats in your wallet its whats in your head ;) My momma always told me if she doesn't appreciate "who you are" than she isn't for you. Hope thats not why I'm still single lol.
Hi:
ReplyDeleteMy name is William and I am President of the blog, www.faithwalkclothing.blogspot.com . I look at your website regularly and I think it is good and I think it's cool. In fact I have bookmarked it. I would like to partner and trade links with you. I am based in Chicago and I receive traffic locally as well as from all over the world. I hope to hear back from you soon and if you have any questions please let me know. If you decide to trade links with us please send back your web address and how you would like your site's name to be listed. If you decide to trade links with us, use the name FaithWalk Clothing and the URL: www.faithwalkclothing.blogspot.com . Until then have a great day.
Best Regards,
William Parker
Co-Founder, FaithWalk Clothing
faithwalkclothing@gmail.com
(773) 835-0188
Bad economy or not the question should not be about cutting brothers "some slack" it should be about sisters examining their priorities and expectations in a partnership. A partners ability to be loving, respectful, considerate, hard working, selfless, dedicated, thoughtful, and all the other qualities that make for a strong loving relationship is NOT measured by the size of the individuals bank account. On the other hand, your acceptance of your partner's (or potential partner's) ability to bring these qualities to a relationship may very well be influenced by the individuals bank account particularly if you place a high priority on the level of financial contribution your partner brings to the table.
ReplyDeleteIf a man affords you all the material things that your heart desires but he fails to love, respect, and cherish you in the manner that you deserve, should he be "cut some slack" and allowed to be a part of your life? Conversely, if a man affords you all the spiritual things that your heart desires but fails meet your financial standards of contribution should you close the door on the possibilities of that relationship? The answer will heavily depend on the individual woman and what she truly values in life.
There are no excuses now a days, there are many things to do free and are inexpensive in the city and outer surburban area of chicago, regardless if the man is struggling in this economy and the reason there are many independant black women making more money today, is because our black women have been put in a position that self support is the only way to go, most!of our black men are baby daddies and our black single women must support herself and child(ren)not because desire but out of survival.So now our black women are driving the nice cars and buying homes on their own not to be independent but out of survival. Remember when a man would support his family while the women would stay home and make sure her children were well taken care of,well those days are few and far between. So let's face the facts our black women must think about the future of theirselves and child(ren),which is why there are more black women in school than ever because most and I said most not all black men are still playing in the field. This blog is not about married women but single black women. So yes the woman should be understanding when it comes to financial means on a man part, let's face fact at least he is trying.
ReplyDeleteI have read a good number of these comments, and I must say that I agree with them all to a certain extent. I am a young African American male, recently laid off,and a full time student in the midst of opening an Ecommerce store. This is the first time I have been unemployed in 15 years. I honestly understand where woman come from on this issue. Over time more women started to realize that if they wanted better for themselves,then it was up to them to attain it,thus resulting in many of the men of our culture to draw back and say go ahead. I do not agree with this concept. Whether my wife agreed or not, I could not see my her facing the elements to make it to her place of employment, while I stay at home, toasty, making brownies.
ReplyDeleteI believe that many men, and women have strayed from the position that God appointed us to, and I do believe that it started with the men. It may sound juvenile, but as a new husband, I have learned that placing God first in our lives covers all of the issues that we could ever face in relationships, whether romantic or otherwise. Should a man be granted slack during this time of tribulation? I believe that a man, if he stays true to the definition of one, would be offended at even the hint of such a thought. I believe that a real man would not want to be defined as anything else than what he Really is.